Curator Will di Novi from Hot Docs Sits Down With Bingeworthy
And talks about why the A-List festival Hot Docs made some extra room for podcasts in its 30th Anniversary edition this year
This week I bring to another installment of BIngeworthy Sits Down With …I ’m joined by Will di Novi, who works as podcast curator with Hot Docs Festival, which returns in full force to Toronto later this month.
Mostly I offer reviews and discussions about pressing topics here (Do We Need To Re-Evaluate Our Work? & What’s the Job Of Reviews…) but this week, I’m compelled to share some more industry news with you about another upcoming festival with Hot Docs. You might remember that back in February, I sat down with Davy Gardiner from Tribeca.
This is an exciting turn of events for me; I have a long history with this festival. It was first founded by The Canadian Independent Film Caucus in 1993, which was a renegade group of filmmakers who wanted another venue to showcase great Canadian films. This group later renamed itself to The Documentary Organization of Canada, where I was Executive Director from 2005-2008.
The early days of the festival were centered around Toronto’s Little Italy neighbourhood, with the flagship screenings held at the Royal Theatre, a beautiful repertory cinema that’s still open today. In 2001, I showed a prototype of an interactive documentary there…Hot Docs has always been open to showcasing new formats of storytelling.
As the century flipped over, the festival began to explode with growth. Tens of thousands of film lovers from Toronto were lining up to see documentary films. And with it, the Industry programming also grew. The Toronto Documentary Forum was first held in 2000, which is an industry pitching event held over two days at Heart House on the main campus of UofT that single-handedly helped to anchor this festival as a global stop in the industry circuit.
Over these couple of years, the festival also offered Master classes with documentary heavyweights like DA Pennebaker and Chris Hegedus, and Albert Maysles. They consistently showed great films, which often went on to garner top awards.
Hot Docs made Toronto a place where great documentaries were seen. By the year 2009, audience numbers for the 10-day festival were well over 100,000; within 10 years, that number would double again.
In 2016, Hot Docs began their Podcasting Festival, well ahead of the pace. THis year marks the 7th edition of this festival.
This year, its 30th Anniversary, Hot Docs is excited to return to a fully in-person schedule for the first time since 2019.
And to celebrate, they have folded narrative podcasts into the industry fold!
Mark your calendars! The festival runs April 27 - May 7, at theatres all across Toronto. Check out the full schedule here.
If you’re interested to dive into the podcast side of things, FOLLOW THIS LINK to nab a Podcast Creator’s Pass (the early-bird rate extended to readers of Bingeworthy).
Although they’ve made room in the festival calendar, it’s almost impossible to find any information about this on their website, so let me leave some handy links for you here:
INCLUDING: May 5, CBC Podcast Showcase
May 5, Radiolab live show
May 6: On with Kara Swisher
May 6: Scaminfluencers
May 7: The Happiness Lab Featuring Special Guest Gretchen Rubin
Get your TICKETS HERE
Don’t forget, if you buy the Podcast Creator Pass, you get two Masterclasses: One with Nancy Updike and Nicole Newnham; and another with Tanya Talaga and Connie Walker PLUS lots of other great
[THIS LINK extends the Early Bird price of $164 to my readers].
PLUS!! If you buy the Creators Pass you actually get access to SIX podcast industry events master classes — plus a social networking event for audio creators that is soon to be locked into the schedule for one of those two days.
Here’s a LINK to more info on the events and master classed
So a few reasons to stop by Toronto later this month, if that’s not already your plan. And if you’re going to be here, drop me a line! Just hit reply to this email to connect.
The following is a selection from a Zoom interview with Will di Novi. It has been edited for length and clarity.
Samantha Hodder: Congrats to Hot Docs for bringing [podcasting] up to a new level!
Will di Novi: Thanks! Bringing the audio into our flagship doc festival really made sense as part of our 30th Anniversary Festival [this year]. We’ve really expanded to really celebrate nonfiction across a whole bunch of different media, and nowhere more so than with the Podcast Festival, which is now in its seventh year. So it really made sense in our 30th Anniversary festival to kind of showcase the full spectrum of what we're doing.
SH: Is this the plan going forward? Or is this more of a special 30th Anniversary thing?
WdN: You know, it’s a great question, and I think we'll have to wait and see on that! It’s a new experiment. We want to make sure we find a sweet spot here inside the very large platform of our flagship film festival to create greater exposure for the great audio storytellers we work with; but then also to make sure that they don't get lost in the shuffle within the bigger spectacle of our festival.
And then to make sure that we find a balance here [between] the film and the podcast programming that are really complementary to each other, and enrich each other. We're hopeful that that will we'll strike that balance this year, but I'm sure there'll be a lot of learnings to take from that.
The key point, though, is that the podcast festival — a standalone entity — will continue. We'll be coming back in October with the standalone Hot Docs Podcast Festival as well. We've embarked on a perhaps overly ambitious effort this year to do two podcast events this year!
SH: Well, it's been off-kilter for a couple of years because of Covid.
WdN: We did our last two editions virtually, in January…we never cancelled it.
SH: Just so that I understand the scope, this the Hot Docs Festival, 30th Anniversary Edition, has a two-day industry-focused panel discussions, and then also five mainstage events? Or are those layered on top of the two-day event?
WdN: So it'll be a two-day version of our Podcast Creators Forum, our industry conference programming [with] panels and masterclasses. [This is] geared more at an audience of actual podcast makers and filmmakers.
We're really trying in those sessions to kind of bore down on the common threads between the two media [podcast and documentary] and the many exciting ways that podcasting is in dialogue with documentary filmmaking and other kinds of nonfiction storytelling.
And then additionally, we’ll have five podcast live shows happening over the second half of the festival, showcasing some of our favourite Canadian and International shows doing live performances.
SH: And those will happen at the Hot Docs Cinema [on Bloor Street?].
WdN: Exactly, yeah.
SH: I'm curious about where the kernels for this idea came from?
WdN: The excitement [has been] building to do something special for the 30th that would reflect the full range of what we do [for some time].
Having done two virtual editions of the festival, we have given a lot of thought to what would be the most impactful way to get back into that exciting in-person programming. Our previous festival had been in January of 2022 [and we wanted] to get back as soon as we could; but then also realizing that the festivals has a lot of value as a standalone entity as well, especially as a kind of anchor in the fall, with our flagship festival in spring. So [I guess wanting the] best of both worlds here is how it came about.
SH: Can you speak some more about the industry programming? What does that look like? Where does it happen?
What are the reasons to pay the fee as a producer to come and hang out and be there? And, you know, what's your vision for it going forward?
WdN: In our podcasts programming we've built up a robust industry track record over time. And I think the main principle is to kind of give podcast creators (with all backgrounds and experience levels) the creative tools so they can bring them back to their own creative projects, both very practical, concrete skills, [and also] a sense of creative inspiration, that will energize them as they return [to their projects].
So it's panels, masterclasses, and then, great networking opportunities that will bring together audiences, [which will] bring together podcast makers and aspiring podcast makers.
We [will] feature a wide range of people; hosts, producers, podcast executives, [all] talking about practical skills-based questions, issues and themes facing the audio industry at large. Also, the exciting, creative trends in audio storytelling, or nonfiction storytelling more broadly.
We [will also] bring together the world's top audio storytellers into a space where you can learn firsthand from their great insights and from their work, but then also have the opportunity to ask them questions in-between sessions at networking events that will bring [people] together to have meetings and build collaborations.
When I [began at Hot Docs as] a festival film programmer, I always found the hothouse atmosphere at our first flagship festival is so inspiring. And I think my goal in building the podcast programming over time, both at the Podcast Festival, and now in this showcase, is to instill [that sense of excitement] in all of our delegates, So…you've just spent a few days surrounded by other incredibly exciting creative people, many of them the world leaders in the field, and you're suddenly going to be armed with the practical tools and the creative inspiration to tackle your own projects from a fresh perspective and with a new sense of momentum.
SH: For sure! I love that festival vibe! Where do these industry events happen?
WdN: This spring, the two days of audio industry programming will be held on May 3 and 4th at the TIFF Lightbox, which is where we're hosting the bulk of our broader Hot Docs Industry Conference happens. These audio events will be seamlessly integrated into our wider Hot Docs Festival Industry Conference.
One of our specific goals (given that it's living within the bigger documentary festival) is to explore the creative synergy between podcasting and other non-fiction media. We really want to emphasize to your readers—and anyone else—that the sessions are designed in a way that we hope they'll be exciting and useful for the diehard audio makers, but also for nonfiction storytellers of any background; including the delegates from 70 countries who come to present documentary film projects at Hot Docs as well.
We’re exploring a lot of issues that are sort of common to nonfiction storytellers of all different backgrounds. [Our masterclass will] compare masterful documentary filmmakers, like Nicole Newnham, the Oscar-nominated director of Crip Camp, with Nancy Updike, the one of the founding producers of This American Life.
[This session pairs] brilliant creators from both media in dialogue to really share ideas about contemporary storytelling, and how they each pursue their craft, looking at common threads in storytelling crap that people of all backgrounds can adapt.
From both a creative standpoint, and an industry standpoint, there’s an exciting crossover right now between documentaries and podcasts and other media. We've been approached quite a bit by documentary filmmakers that we work with, but also print journalists, on different programming. I'm so excited by [all] the creative possibilities of podcasting.
[If you] have the skills as a storyteller that would adapt well, or have projects on the go, that could be adapted into a second project, but need is some of those practical:
The nuts and bolts of how you actually go about that process
What makes a podcast different from other projects
What are the practical skills you need in terms of like audio recording that you might not might be taking for granted?
What are the some of the bigger more sophisticated issues around IP you need to be aware of as you get embark on that process?
Part of the program we've created has also been with those folks in mind. [Leaning on the] instincts and skills as a storyteller, but then also what are the practical nuts and bolts:
How do you get your project funded?
How should you build a team as you embark on a project?
What are the advantages of working with this studio versus in a more independent forum?
SH: And part of its also connecting people because producers and co-producers need people to work together.
The Toronto Documentary Forum does a really good job of creating an industry event. It's not public-facing, it's industry-facing. It puts together deal makers, creators, distributors, marketers, producers, directors, and editors [all in the same room]. The whole idea is to have a business focus, and [either listen to or deliver] a pitch. I like to call the Coliseum, with the pitches down below with the, you know, with the lions and the Tigers.
Is that part of your vision? It's nice to hear panel discussions and talk about stuff and network with folks…what about pushing in that direction?
WdN: I think I think there's a lot of untapped potential there…I think that's something we would like to explore...[Could we] adapt the model that our brilliant colleagues who run [The Forum] and industry conference at the festival?
I think that's something we definitely like to explore moving forward on our industry track. I think we haven't quite built the capacity yet for that on the podcast industry side. It's a small but scrappy team working on the programming side for the audio industry programming.
It's [also] been an evolution for us, because we started very much as a public-facing festival. The initial impetus was was to bring some of the greatest podcasts in the world to Toronto to perform for their fans. And then over time, we were starting to get demand from the Canadian audio industry, and from our international partners, to create that space where we could also create opportunities for some great industry programming as well, and industry networking. And so it's gradually built from there.
And so now, in terms of just sheer real estate, we're devoting as much space to audio to industry programming as we are to the public programming. And that's been really exciting to see.
But I think I think that you've hit on something for sure. I think that could be the next; we've had a couple of sort of informal kind of pitch events and past editions of the Industry Forum at the podcast festival, but there's I think there's more.
SH: Can you give us a little more spoilers about the masterclass? So that's the one with Nancy Updike and Nicole Newnham?
WdN: Nicole Newnham has a new film that's going to be playing at Hot Docs. "The Disappearance of Shere Hite" It was just premiered to great claim at Sundance; and Nancy Updike, as we as we put it in the write up, is a titan of audio storytelling. She’s one of them founding producers of This American Life and the creator of some of the most iconic, masterful stories in the long and illustrious history of [TAL]. And coming off of the heels of We Were Three, her limited series for New York Times and Serial Productions, which was, I think, a remarkable and revelatory series.
We're really excited about it that session in particular. We call it “Intimate Epics.” It's a storytelling masterclass, with these two greats, each [have found] extraordinary ways to engage big and profound social issues on the grandest scale, while at the same time crafting these beautifully intimate character studies.
I hope that a storyteller of any background; filmmaker or podcaster, will sit in on the session and get a sense of real excitement and inspiration for their own storytelling projects.
Also, on Wednesday May 3rd, we're looking explicitly at the question of documentary and podcast crossover. We've got a session with Tanya Talaga, the legendary award-winning Ojibwe journalist who has written some of the most important nonfiction books of recent memory in Canada, who has made [both] documentary films and great podcasts.
And Connie Walker, the extraordinary journalist who is, you know, again, made the transition from being a great TV journalist for the CBC and, and a director of feature film documentaries, to now to becoming one of the world's leading audio storytellers, first with Missing and Murdered [on CBC], and now Stolen [on Gimlit].
[Paired with] Michelle Shepard, an amazing multi-hyphenate-Renaissance-woman who's a veteran reporter at the Toronto Star, made many award-winning feature documentaries, and is now made a bunch of really great podcast limited run series as well [with Antica].
We’re really excited to dig in with [all of] them about the transition they've made over the course of their careers, as journalists and nonfiction storytellers, [and either] moving from print to broadcast and feature filmmaking, into podcasts, and what that process has been like.
What does podcasting [offer] as a medium for storytellers that these other media maybe don't? Is it right for certain kinds of stories? But then also, practically, what does that process look like? What does that transition look like? How do you get projects launched? How do you get funding for your projects? How do you build up your skills as an audio storyteller if you're coming to it new?
I'm really excited to hear them talk about this. And just especially what this medium [has to] offer them as storytellers that's special.
SH: I think you're actually sitting on a goldmine of an opportunity here, because if you want to help create the marketplace and create the industry, you can create an event, which helps to create the industry.
There's no denying the connection between the Toronto Documentary Forum and the industry growth in Toronto, and also in Canada. I bet you can put a parallel timeline exactly [next to it]. It really changed the business [climate].
WdN: Thank you, Samantha. I hope I hope my bosses are listening here!
Next week I will return with some more great listens.
But in the meantime…if you’re looking to find out EVERYTHING you need to know about the Canadian podcasting industry, please check out Pod The North, written by the amazing Kattie Laur. No stones left unturned there, and always jam-packed with great insights.
