Corinna and The King: Bradley Hope of Project Brazen Answers All The Questions
If you're over Meghan and Harry, maybe it's time for the first-hand account/breakup story from the former lover of King Juan Carlos I of Spain
Let’s face it, narrative podcasts often ask a lot of you. Maybe they want to make your a quasi-juror on a complicated murder case, or walk you through varied complicated layers of history…or instruct on ways of thinking and seeing (specifically, I’m thinking of In The Dark S2; Mother Country Radicals; and Sold A Story).
But what about those days when you want to tune into a story and just…relax? What about that seeking out the gratifying feeling that there’s a sea of problems that aren’t yours to solve?
Behold Corinna and the King, a podcast from Project Brazen, a story that’s here to astonish you, but also entertain you. It’s a gossipy romp through a Royal family, which with a breath of fresh air, isn’t about the British Royals.
The series features a first-hand tell-all from the ex-girlfriend, the wealthy and well-connected Corinna zu-Sayn Wittengenstein, who shares the experience of her relationship, and then the unravelling of that relationship, with King Juan Carlos I of Spain.
Their relationship began over at an official state-sponsored hunt and a discussion of guns….but then spanned daddy-issues, a former despot, a massive corruption scandal, a Saudi Prince, an atrocious elephant hunt, international espionage, and finally his abdication of the throne in 2014.
The series covers a breathless amount of ground…and to be sure that it doesn’t take itself too seriously, the series is narrated by the actress Mishel Prada, perhaps best known for her role in the Riverdale television series. Her approach to this character is part Bridgerton, part Desperate Housewives, with a splash of that Witney Cummings umami which brought me back to Bunga Bunga.
While it’s true that this show was reported and checked by journalists…it still manages to have that ripped-form-the-headlines feel about it. If your skepticism fuels you to keep listening, all the better, because as the details of this extraordinary love affair unfold, from being an expert on gun cleaning, to high-level PR, to elephant hunting, to snogging at the King’s backyard man-cave just a few miles from where the rest of the Royal household sleeps, you’re going to really enjoy this.
It’s a guilty pleasure full of rich-people’s problems that will certainly balance your cheque book for you.
Yes, you will need to lean into your judgy self here…you will see at first how could this intelligent, well-connected woman got trapped by a powerful man…but then she stayed…and it will be for you to decide if she had actually had the choice to leave, or whether she was trapped there, by his wealth and influence. Or perhaps, kept in her place, by an international spy syndicate that wanted to remind her of her debt (of love and influence) to a fading Monarch.
The following is an email interview with Bradley Hope, one of the founders of Project Brazen, a journalism-first production studio that he co-founded in 2021 with fellow journalist, and fellow Pulitzer-nominated writer, Tom Wright.
Corinna and the King is a podcast that was ambitiously produced two parallel series, one in English and one in Spanish. If you are keen to listen to this story in Spanish, go here (this is the first I’ve heard of this being tackled for a narrative series).
Samantha Hodder: I’m dead curious how this story came to you….did it kick your journalism senses into high gear to high gear when I landed on your desk? Or did it land on your desk? How DID it land?
Bradley Hope: Tom Wright and I, co-founders of Project Brazen, are very tapped into the world of international intrigue and financial crime. This one was on my radar for a long time. I first heard about it when I was working on BLOOD AND OIL, which I co-wrote with Justin Sheck. A contact of mine ended up working with Corinna and he introduced me to her. From that moment, I was completely hooked by this crazy, consequential story.
[SH]: How did you establish this as a credible story, Corinna as a credible witness, and not just a high-end, high-stakes lover’s quarrel?
[BH]:The podcast comes across quite entertaining and smooth, but underlying it is a lot of old-fashioned investigative research - thousands of documents, many interviews with people on and off the record related to the issues, extensive fact-checking. So the end result is a very entertaining story, but it wears its research lightly.
[SH]: How were the interviews with Corinna conducted? You can only ever hear one-half of the conversation, so curious how were they produced…
[BH]: I personally interviewed her in her home over the course of a year. Myself and an audio producer would go over to her apartment and sit with her until her voice went hoarse, most of the time.
[SH]: What was the inspiration for the tone of the narration? And why did you choose that approach?
[BH]: The idea was to lean into the telenovela aspect of the story, rather than pretend like this is a ultra-serious journalistic tone project. Our leader writer, Farah Halime, who is also my wife, was inspired by the opening scene of Desparate Housewives and other scripted projects. We are very interested at Brazen to experiment with how to tell stories with the end consumer in mind.
Journalists do a lot of things from the perspective of them being all-known and all-important. For us, the journalist as a person matters less than the subject and the story. Telling it in a pretentious way (where we to pretend like we're doing some kind of holy work) isn’t an option for us.
We might not always get it right, but our intention all the time is to connect with the viewer/listener/reader and get them to stick around to the end.
[SH]: You told me this was also produced in Spanish…tell me more! What was it like to produce this in two languages? How did that work in terms of production? Which assets had to be duplicated? Did Corinna also give a Spanish interview?
[BH]: We had a transatlantic joint production team. It wasn't really one team working in Spanish and one in English - everyone worked on all parts of the project and the end result is a true cooperative project. We all met together in Madrid for a few days of meetings and meals. After that, we kicked into high gear.
All the interviews with Corinna were done in English and translated. Some interviews were in Spanish in translated and vice verse. One of the big challenges was casting the Spanish voice of Corinna - it took a long time to get right.
[SH]: There’s so much research that went into this story - it’s basically a decade of beat journalism ... How did you approach fact-checking?
[BH]: Project Brazen is more like a newsroom than a podcast production company. Nearly everyone on the team has a journalism background and we are extremely ambitious about research. In addition to having a "head of research," we also have a small army of reporters and researchers who work with us on a freelance basis.
[SH]: Do you have plans to turn this into a book? Could it be another example of Podcast-to-Book pipeline? If so, I would love to hear you expand on this….because so many people think about podcast-to-TV as the holy grail. But maybe there are other avenues to travel.
[BH]: We don't currently have plans, but I would love to actually print a book version of the script itself, which I think is written so well. With pictures, it would work on its own. Another one of our podcasts, Fat Leonard, was converted into an e-book and an audiobook. We're also exploring graphic novel adaptations.
[SH]: As a company, when you approach this sort of subject matter, what kind of insurance did you get for your production company? Is this an E&O policy like you would have for making a documentary? Or business-insurance? I ask this because it sort of spells out what *kind* of a company, or individual, could take on this sort of story. Generally, the backing of a major broadcaster would cover a producer for possible lawsuits under the umbrella of their broadcast license, if it’s an in-house production. But you’re an indie producer…or maybe this is where PRX comes in? I would imagine that you fortified the doors before publishing.
[BH]: We obtain insurance for projects on a case-by-case basis, rather than company wide. Tom and I have a lot of experience in dealing with libel law in multiple countries, so it gives us an inside track to what risks are. We also have a number of lawyers we work with on specific issues to ensure we are managing any risks. I tend to think that we take on podcasts that no network would be able to handle - the complexity of reporting, the management of sources and international nature mean that you need experienced long-form journalists to be in charge rather than business executives.
[SH]: Help me, and our readers, understand what it means to be distributed by PRX…what does that look like? How is there distribution different from doing it as an indie?
[BH]: PRX is an amazing institution for independent creators. They are very generous with their time and excitement. In our case, we work with PRX like a utility provider, meaning we pay them for hosting, marketing and PR support. They also help sell ads when possible and take a cut. Every PRX partnership is different, depending on the needs of the creator. For us, the key was to own 100% of our IP and RSS feeds, so that's the nature of the relationship.
[SH]: Any feedback from the Spanish Royal Family?!
[BH]: They didn't comment publicly.
[SH]: How does Corinna and the King fit into your wider goals as a production house? What’s coming up for Project Brazen?
[BH]: We want to be known for ambitious, buzzy true stories that show you how the world really works. Corinna is a prime example of our ambitious approach to journalism and storytelling. The dual-language approach is also really interesting and important to us.
What's up next from us is more projects in the same vein and by the middle of the year, the launch of our own network where we help other companies, journalists and brands distribute and monetize their work.
We have some ideas that will shake up how podcasts get done in 2023!
My ears have been very booked lately, and I’m excited to share some more great listens soon…be on the watch for the audiobook / podcast from Audible:
And then the completely bingeable, legally frustrating, wrongful conviction story:
See you next week with some more great listens, with questions asked and answered by producers.