My loyal readers…hello! I’ve got something a bit different for you today. I’ve got something for you to listen to, instead of just reading. I’ve been working towards for a while, and honestly, it’s a bit obvious. For the first time, today I’m going to share the backstory, the actual audio, from my interview. I always record these conversations, and usually I take a selection from transcription and include that. A couple weeks ago I shared the video of my interview with Audrey Mardavich…so I’m innovating. And trying thing.
This is kind of exciting, for a couple reasons. First, it’s a great interview, here with Jess. And second, because I hope, I want to try and do more of this….so do me a favour and let me know what you think in the comments below, or just respond to this email, and that goes directly in my inbox.
Ok. What is this. It’s kind of hillarious, when you think about it: my first podcast about podcasts, is a documentary about a documentaries. This is getting pretty meta.
Today I’m going to share my conversation with Jess Shane…she just released Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative, on Radiotopia Presents….you probably know this feed…it’s the same one that that’s hosted the series My Mother Made Me, Shithole Country, and so many other amazing stories.
This does come up a bit in the interview, but this actually the second time I’ve interviewed Jess…about a year ago I interviewed her about her piece Accounts and Accountability which came out on the BBC series Lights Out in November of 2022. And in a way, that short was the prototype for this series, so it sort of fits.
Today, we’re going to dig into Shocking, Heartbreaking, Transformative. It’s a limited series, 5 episodes, and it manages to find an entry point into examine documentary ethics, which is a vast and frankly very dry subject…but Jess, like only Jess can, found a way in. And watch the door close behind you, because you’re in the story too.
I’m going to put it out there that this series is going to become required curriculum, required reading, for students, or really anyone who grapples with how documentaries are made. As in, what goes into the sausage, exactly.
For example: Is it possible to collaborate with your subject when you’re telling their life story? You’re the producer, the person with the skill and the craft, of how to do this. But to get there, you need access. You need someone who will consent to share their story. And usually, there’s some layers to their story, because, as we all know, that that’s what makes a good story.
But to follow the new rules that Jess lays out, let’s call them: The New Documentary Rules, you need to be fully transparent about the process. You get to pay them. You’re allowed to take gifts. And finally, you need to get sign off. As you go, all of this is done with their consent - first, with a standard release form, and then at the end, they get to hear a rough cut...and provide notes. Tricky, right? Because what you also know is that in order for a story interesting, to everyone, it must be crafted and engaging, and vulnerable.
So, is this actually possible, to play by these new rules, and actually produce something? I’ll leave for you to decide. But first, let’s start with our conversation.
Key Moments:
What is the conceit of this series: [4:13]
The concept, the engine of this series, in inherently flawed, from the get-go [7:52]
The premise was kind-of tongue and cheek….but then Jess got earnest [8:52]
Is the story is it’s own vessel, that’s supposed to be pristine and unscathed by other things [10:35]
“It was real…I got wrapped up in it….I started to relish the ways it fell apart [12:58]
Old rules of documentary, versus the new rules of documentary [14:30 ; 16:36]
Time to talk about “gifts” exchange in this series, and why [16:50]
More about paying for people’s time as a subject in a documentary [22:22]
Some of the “old” rules that are there, are there for a reason [28:24]
Would Jess do it again like this? [30:10]
In some ways, the listener is manipulated here, not the subject [32:50]
Did this experiment fail or succeed? [36:48]
Is “Collaboration” is viable as a storytelling process? [38:23]
It's Designed To Fail, But In Interesting Ways